Reader's comments on July issue
I like the editorial, "Wit and Witticisms," and as usual, it proves to be extremely erudite. For the most part, I agree with your recommendations on how poetry should use wit. I must admit, however, that I am not entirely convinced of your analysis of McCaffrey's poem. You are right, in my opinion, to suggest that the poem is culturally specific, and that its full meaning is accessible only to bilingual readers; but I don't think that this makes the poem opaque. I feel that your reading of this poem is very cosmopolitan -- in the sense that you demand a universal means of apprehension -- yet, ironically, parochial in that you call for an English puritanism. My understanding of your analysis here may be wrong, but I find it difficult to agree that the poet needs to reach the "general reader" -- that's what I found was the problem with Baraka's poem. I think the beauty of the poem lies in its extreme brevity that is able to layer meaning, and, as you mention, "probe the limits of language," whether or not the general reader is aware of this phenomenon. In fact, this exclusivity may actually be part of the poem, since it reflects the political debate re official languages in Canada.
As always, I learned something new from reading your editorial; fascinating explanation of the Augustan epigram! Looking forward to reading the rest of the mag. I agree that it is frustrating reading a text in another language; but sometimes, I'll admit that the second or third language in a work, such as Regine Robin's _The Wanderer_ which moves between English, French and Yiddish, has a whole other meaning, one that is not linguistic. In Robin's case, for example, the point is to recreate the alienation felt by an immigrant in a multicultural city. It does become problematic, however, when we consider that Robin's text was translated from French into English, from English into French, etc. Is there a dominant language, then, in a text, or does it depend on the reader's own language? I don't have an answer to this question, but I think this illustrates that the complexity of a poem or text, the beauty therin involves more than just its linguistic meaning, as I think it does in your own poems and your play, as you mention, that incorporate both English and German.
As for the plunderverse, I'm a little confused as to what it is exactly. You explain it very well, I believe, as a genre "that purports to save the 'waste' of language by creating poems from other already finished poems." i went to Betts' site to read some more on this avant-garde style, hoping to see some excellent specimens of poetry to dissect. Well, I found specimens there, but they were more like tadpoles than fully grown amphibians. The way you explained it, I thought to myself, it could be an interesting form if done well. If the poet were well acquainted with the primary text and reformulated it in a way that responded or reacted to its original meaning; I guess my hopes were too high. I should have heeded your warning that the plunderverse "is not parody" and that "it simply plunders." If Betts' work exemplifies the characteristics of plunderverse, than I agree that it's merely a pilfering, and one that leaves the thief in a state of bankruptcy at that!
Michele Rackham
Canada
********************************************************
I did read your editorial, and thought it was really interesting. I'm not sure I share your critique of language poetry, and actually thought that the "Catching Frogs" poem was very compelling, but I thought you did a good job of deploying those eighteenth-century heavyweights to your advantage!
Julie Murray
Canada
**************************************************************
One can hopefully now offer a deserved congratulations to Nnorom and Amatoritsero for offering us another month's interesting mix of magazine interview, poems, essays, images and related information. I usually look out for what may be regarded as the surprise gift of the month. In some months there is none. But this July edition offers an interesting essay by the inimitable Ikhide Ikheola. 'Night Light' is his 'common' reader's attempt at locating the 'poetry public' at the centre of the poetry enterprise:
"If I were to be a poet, the questions for me would be the following: Why do I wish to express myself? Who is my intended audience? How do I connect with my intended audience? Have I been successful at connecting with my audience? It seems to me that form, structures, and rules are useful only to the extent that they help the poet to effectively deliver a messager... The good critic should be able to say the poem is great and it achieves greatness because it uses certain tools. It ought not to acheive greatness because it has (a), (b) (c) and (d) rules, structures, etc..."
This idea of a poetry criticism concerned primarily with content, with message, rather than form will find few suitors among practising poets and their critics. Poetry is recognisable as form before it is interpreted as message. This is a governing idea in aesthetic formalism and there are good reasons for it. The form of poetry is sometimes its only message, as in some postmodern poetry, and, because poetry is open to interpretation, a poem will allow into its world (and its work) even the unintended interpretations. Sometimes a supposedly political poem, even one intended as such, my take on a life of its own, make many acquaintances and then yield itself to a thousand ambiguities or subjectivities, meaning differently to its different readers from age to age, place to place, doing a work for some love-lorn Literature sophomore in an Australia college quite different from that for which it had been faithfully recited by the race-challenged youth of civil rights America. An example of such a larger-than-one-message, greater-than-one-people poem would be Dream Deferred, the Langston Hughes classic:
What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raison in the sun?
Or fester like a sore-
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over-
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
The eloquence of poetry, its power to arouse, is also a reason why the poetic language, indeed poetry, has, in political history, been attractive to both the Machiavellian demagogue and the heroic revolutionary, serving both saint and vilain. It is the case then that though we have a fair degree of control over the form of poetry, the message is more unruly because it is open to much (mis)interpretation and misuse. The art is what lives after the message is dead or has been discredited. This is the case today with aspects of our oral poetry - those in which the ancients were not so nice, or, were expressing worldview that we no longer hold, as found in some of the maledictions, proverbs and incantations. We retain these sayings for their anthropological and aesthetic value though we no longer believe in what they say. So, form, structure, aesthetic considerations in poetry will always matter to us, and remain central in our determination of poetic value.
Beyond this necessary defence of form I am in general agreement with Ikhide that 'poetic truth' as has been the focus of Amatoritsero's Sentinel editorials cannot repeatedly fail to communicate with the common reader, or fail in its preoccupation with form to be concerned with the 'common life' and yet seek to assert the universality of its truth. When is poetry most true? When it achieves perfection in form as determined by, and recognisable only to, a master class of aesthetes and subject experts, or when that celebrated aesthetic excellence has jettisoned its elitist exclusivities to also enthrall and variously affect Ikhide and many interested others not claiming particular expertise in the subject? Is it possible that the experience of poetry, the form of poetry, its capacity for self-actualisation, can become enlarged, perhaps even improved, by this engagement with others outside the closeted community of experts? Is poetry then not only as good, as true, as valuable, even only as representative a measure of form and excellence as the experience it has allowed itself? These are some of the concerns suggested in the views of common reader Ikhide – and these are not concerns to be dismissed lightly.
They are issues which are well worked in contemporary poetry criticism and theory. The pursuit of an audience for poetry, the conflicting definitions of 'the common reader', the devolution, nationalization or democratization of judgement on aesthetic value, the need to uphold the truth of art, its enduring qualities and integrity against artless populism, mediocrity and artifice in representation - these are all familiar material thrown up by the discourse positions taken by Amatoritsero and Ikhide. Beyond the seemingly facile preoccupation with form, these deeper concerns with the integrity of art are what inform the following comment from Amatoritsero's editorial, 'Wit and Witticism':
"True wit should deploy syntactical brevity, measured cadence, memorable expressions, even the pun, but all within an ambience of truthful utterance developed through demonstrable logic and not empty binarisms, antithesis or the maxim; it should not provide wayward moral injunctions in its subtext."
Amatoritsero has indeed grown into his editorial, or grown with it, becoming more deliberate and aware in his polemical choices, more sensitive to opposing perspectives, than was evident at the onset of this investigation of integrity and aesthetic value in poetic representation. He has said he would like to rework and publish these editorial essays some day and one can see how this might be possible from closer study of their unifying subject. There are of course no easy answers to these issues which provide material for the poetics of the essays in the current Sentinel Online magazine. Some kind of guiding thought is, however, articulated by poet and critic Sean O'Brien in his book, The Deregulated Muse (Bloodaxe Books, 1998). Seeking to distinguish the enduring qualities of art from its possible value in popular entertainment, he says:
'This seems to me a decisive argument... It is that art has something to offer the audience - enlightenment, a sense of wonder, a clarification of feeling, an extention to the map of experience - of which the audience is not already in complete posseession. The distinction between art and entertainment is to be sought in this area..."
In seeking to provide poetry and poetry criticism which are both aware of the high aesthetic considerations of poetry specialist Amatoritsero and common consumer Ikhide, it seems to me that we are well advised by the words of O'Brien above.
In the current Sentinel magzine, apart from the essays, there is poetry from Victoria Kankara (Guest Poet), Janet Sommerville, Molara Wood, Angela Nwosu, Janine Wright, Tolu Ogunlesi, Niyi Juliad and Obododinma Oha. There are visuals from Nicole Beaumont too. I am hesitant about the choice of Victoria Kankara as Guest Poet for the current magazine. I am especially uncertain about the poems which represent her there.
For those interested, one famous poet's perspective on some of the issues in poetic truth and the integrity of the word, especially on the subject of verisimilitude, can be found in an interview with John Ashbery here:
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/asbery-interview.html
Afam Akeh
UK
Click here to return to sentinel poetry (online) - August 2006
As always, I learned something new from reading your editorial; fascinating explanation of the Augustan epigram! Looking forward to reading the rest of the mag. I agree that it is frustrating reading a text in another language; but sometimes, I'll admit that the second or third language in a work, such as Regine Robin's _The Wanderer_ which moves between English, French and Yiddish, has a whole other meaning, one that is not linguistic. In Robin's case, for example, the point is to recreate the alienation felt by an immigrant in a multicultural city. It does become problematic, however, when we consider that Robin's text was translated from French into English, from English into French, etc. Is there a dominant language, then, in a text, or does it depend on the reader's own language? I don't have an answer to this question, but I think this illustrates that the complexity of a poem or text, the beauty therin involves more than just its linguistic meaning, as I think it does in your own poems and your play, as you mention, that incorporate both English and German.
As for the plunderverse, I'm a little confused as to what it is exactly. You explain it very well, I believe, as a genre "that purports to save the 'waste' of language by creating poems from other already finished poems." i went to Betts' site to read some more on this avant-garde style, hoping to see some excellent specimens of poetry to dissect. Well, I found specimens there, but they were more like tadpoles than fully grown amphibians. The way you explained it, I thought to myself, it could be an interesting form if done well. If the poet were well acquainted with the primary text and reformulated it in a way that responded or reacted to its original meaning; I guess my hopes were too high. I should have heeded your warning that the plunderverse "is not parody" and that "it simply plunders." If Betts' work exemplifies the characteristics of plunderverse, than I agree that it's merely a pilfering, and one that leaves the thief in a state of bankruptcy at that!
Michele Rackham
Canada
********************************************************
I did read your editorial, and thought it was really interesting. I'm not sure I share your critique of language poetry, and actually thought that the "Catching Frogs" poem was very compelling, but I thought you did a good job of deploying those eighteenth-century heavyweights to your advantage!
Julie Murray
Canada
**************************************************************
One can hopefully now offer a deserved congratulations to Nnorom and Amatoritsero for offering us another month's interesting mix of magazine interview, poems, essays, images and related information. I usually look out for what may be regarded as the surprise gift of the month. In some months there is none. But this July edition offers an interesting essay by the inimitable Ikhide Ikheola. 'Night Light' is his 'common' reader's attempt at locating the 'poetry public' at the centre of the poetry enterprise:
"If I were to be a poet, the questions for me would be the following: Why do I wish to express myself? Who is my intended audience? How do I connect with my intended audience? Have I been successful at connecting with my audience? It seems to me that form, structures, and rules are useful only to the extent that they help the poet to effectively deliver a messager... The good critic should be able to say the poem is great and it achieves greatness because it uses certain tools. It ought not to acheive greatness because it has (a), (b) (c) and (d) rules, structures, etc..."
This idea of a poetry criticism concerned primarily with content, with message, rather than form will find few suitors among practising poets and their critics. Poetry is recognisable as form before it is interpreted as message. This is a governing idea in aesthetic formalism and there are good reasons for it. The form of poetry is sometimes its only message, as in some postmodern poetry, and, because poetry is open to interpretation, a poem will allow into its world (and its work) even the unintended interpretations. Sometimes a supposedly political poem, even one intended as such, my take on a life of its own, make many acquaintances and then yield itself to a thousand ambiguities or subjectivities, meaning differently to its different readers from age to age, place to place, doing a work for some love-lorn Literature sophomore in an Australia college quite different from that for which it had been faithfully recited by the race-challenged youth of civil rights America. An example of such a larger-than-one-message, greater-than-one-people poem would be Dream Deferred, the Langston Hughes classic:
What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raison in the sun?
Or fester like a sore-
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over-
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
The eloquence of poetry, its power to arouse, is also a reason why the poetic language, indeed poetry, has, in political history, been attractive to both the Machiavellian demagogue and the heroic revolutionary, serving both saint and vilain. It is the case then that though we have a fair degree of control over the form of poetry, the message is more unruly because it is open to much (mis)interpretation and misuse. The art is what lives after the message is dead or has been discredited. This is the case today with aspects of our oral poetry - those in which the ancients were not so nice, or, were expressing worldview that we no longer hold, as found in some of the maledictions, proverbs and incantations. We retain these sayings for their anthropological and aesthetic value though we no longer believe in what they say. So, form, structure, aesthetic considerations in poetry will always matter to us, and remain central in our determination of poetic value.
Beyond this necessary defence of form I am in general agreement with Ikhide that 'poetic truth' as has been the focus of Amatoritsero's Sentinel editorials cannot repeatedly fail to communicate with the common reader, or fail in its preoccupation with form to be concerned with the 'common life' and yet seek to assert the universality of its truth. When is poetry most true? When it achieves perfection in form as determined by, and recognisable only to, a master class of aesthetes and subject experts, or when that celebrated aesthetic excellence has jettisoned its elitist exclusivities to also enthrall and variously affect Ikhide and many interested others not claiming particular expertise in the subject? Is it possible that the experience of poetry, the form of poetry, its capacity for self-actualisation, can become enlarged, perhaps even improved, by this engagement with others outside the closeted community of experts? Is poetry then not only as good, as true, as valuable, even only as representative a measure of form and excellence as the experience it has allowed itself? These are some of the concerns suggested in the views of common reader Ikhide – and these are not concerns to be dismissed lightly.
They are issues which are well worked in contemporary poetry criticism and theory. The pursuit of an audience for poetry, the conflicting definitions of 'the common reader', the devolution, nationalization or democratization of judgement on aesthetic value, the need to uphold the truth of art, its enduring qualities and integrity against artless populism, mediocrity and artifice in representation - these are all familiar material thrown up by the discourse positions taken by Amatoritsero and Ikhide. Beyond the seemingly facile preoccupation with form, these deeper concerns with the integrity of art are what inform the following comment from Amatoritsero's editorial, 'Wit and Witticism':
"True wit should deploy syntactical brevity, measured cadence, memorable expressions, even the pun, but all within an ambience of truthful utterance developed through demonstrable logic and not empty binarisms, antithesis or the maxim; it should not provide wayward moral injunctions in its subtext."
Amatoritsero has indeed grown into his editorial, or grown with it, becoming more deliberate and aware in his polemical choices, more sensitive to opposing perspectives, than was evident at the onset of this investigation of integrity and aesthetic value in poetic representation. He has said he would like to rework and publish these editorial essays some day and one can see how this might be possible from closer study of their unifying subject. There are of course no easy answers to these issues which provide material for the poetics of the essays in the current Sentinel Online magazine. Some kind of guiding thought is, however, articulated by poet and critic Sean O'Brien in his book, The Deregulated Muse (Bloodaxe Books, 1998). Seeking to distinguish the enduring qualities of art from its possible value in popular entertainment, he says:
'This seems to me a decisive argument... It is that art has something to offer the audience - enlightenment, a sense of wonder, a clarification of feeling, an extention to the map of experience - of which the audience is not already in complete posseession. The distinction between art and entertainment is to be sought in this area..."
In seeking to provide poetry and poetry criticism which are both aware of the high aesthetic considerations of poetry specialist Amatoritsero and common consumer Ikhide, it seems to me that we are well advised by the words of O'Brien above.
In the current Sentinel magzine, apart from the essays, there is poetry from Victoria Kankara (Guest Poet), Janet Sommerville, Molara Wood, Angela Nwosu, Janine Wright, Tolu Ogunlesi, Niyi Juliad and Obododinma Oha. There are visuals from Nicole Beaumont too. I am hesitant about the choice of Victoria Kankara as Guest Poet for the current magazine. I am especially uncertain about the poems which represent her there.
For those interested, one famous poet's perspective on some of the issues in poetic truth and the integrity of the word, especially on the subject of verisimilitude, can be found in an interview with John Ashbery here:
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/asbery-interview.html
Afam Akeh
UK
Click here to return to sentinel poetry (online) - August 2006
